Rob Coppinger doesn't believe in orbital propellant depots: The fantasy of orbital fuel depots - Hyperbola - Nov.19.08.

I expect that Jon Goff, a strong proponent of fuel depots, and other engineers who are more informed on this subject that I am will respond effectively to Rob's post. I'll just make a few points here:

/-- Rob is correct that the currently planned commercial human spaceflight activities such as space tourism, Bigelow's habitats, etc. do not need fuel depots. It would be great if depots were available but they are not essential at the moment.

/-- Ares I/V/Orion program could easily eat up +$50B by 2020. The systems are all essentially throwaways and with only 3 or 4 missions per year at most, they will have extremely high operating costs. They are too expensive to use for any commercial operations and if the Moon/Mars program is canceled like Apollo, these systems will simply stop being used and their remnants will go to museums. All of that investment will be lost.

/-- Current proposals for fuel depots from engineers like Dallas Bienhoff of Boeing and Frank Zeglerof ULA (see the presentations from the SAS'08 conference) are to provide alternative architectures to Ares I/V that are significantly cheaper while also providing enhanced capabilities. E.g. Dallas shows that with a depot NASA could increase the mass placed on the Moon from 18 tons to 51 tons.

/-- Rob is correct that there are currently no near term markets for fuel depots. However, NASA could create one by operating its Constellation fuel depot in a manner similar to the COTS ISS cargo delivery program. That is, the agency would contract out to the cheapest contractor(s) for delivery of fuel to the depots. This benefits NASA in lowering costs for its missions and in addition acts to drive launch costs down for everyone as economies of scale kick in and as new entrants bring in improved vehicles.

/-- A fuel depot architecture for Constellation would initiate the creation of an in-space infrastructure (which would also include space tugs) that would benefit all space development ranging from commercial operations to other NASA deep space science missions. This infrastructure technology would continue to operate and develop regardless of whether the Moon/Mars mission funding was cut or eliminated. The billions spent by NASA on Constellation will have gone for something that represents a long term net gain in space capabilities rather than a net zero.

/-- Rob lists a lot of practical problems but those are all on the short term. What is key is to get the fuel depot development process going and Constellation could do that. Once a depot is in operation, other systems will gradually be adapted to using it.

/-- Finally, I'll state that the fuel depot is no more of a fantasy than Ares V. I don't "believe" the latter will ever be built. However, I do believe that fuel depots will be orbited eventually regardless of NASA programs.

Ferris Valyn points me to his review of various people who either are involved or might become involved in space policy development in the Obama transition team and administration : Obama Space - The Space People Pt 1 - Transition and Elected - Daily Kos: State of the Nation - Nov.19.08.

Henry Spencer talks about the Planetary Society's roadmap and the Mars vs Moon issue: Why NASA should focus on the Moon, not Mars - New Scientist.

Rand Simberg follows up Henry's post : More Thoughts On Destinations - Transterrestrial Musings

Thomas McNeill of Exoge Aerospace talks about their efforts to develop an Otrag style modular rocket system: An Introduction to Exoge Aerospace - The Space Fellowship.

Alan Boyle reports on a test with the Epoxi spacecraft of the Delay Tolerant Networking (DTN) protocol developed by Vinton Cerf and others for space communications networks: Interplanetary Internet passes test - Cosmic Log/msnbc.com.

Here are more resources for DTN:
/-- NASA Successfully Tests First Deep Space Internet - NASA - Nov.18.08
/-- Delay Tolerant Networking Research Group
/-- DTN at Wikipedia
/-- Delay-Tolerant Networks (DTNs): A Tutorial - Mar.5.03 (pdf)

This sounds like it could be quite useful for commercial in-space operations. Someone pointed out, for example, that the Google Lunar X PRIZE projects such as Astrobotic and Odyssey Moon that plan to continue operations with commercial services will need to obtain rights to some bandwidth in the broadcast spectrum. That sounds like an expensive and time consuming process. If they could instead just connect to a DTN node on, say, a GEO communications satellite, they wouldn't have to deal with the space-to-earth communication issues. (I'm assuming its relatively easy to obtain rights to in-space communications bands.)

Once upon a time, Mike Griffin considered the EELVs safe enough for NASA crews : Will the Real Mike Griffin Please Stand Up? - The Space Frontier Foundation.
===
Piers Bizony argues that Europe should convert the ATV to a crew vehicle: Why Europe should build its own crewed space vehicle - New Scientist. (BTW, it won't be trivial, but I don't think it would require a "a quick miracle" for SpaceX to provide crew access to the ISS before 2015.)

Via Transterrestrial Musings comes word of these blogs from Paul Spudis:
/-- Spudis Lunar Resources Blog
/-- The Once and Future Moon - Hosted by Air & Space Magazine.

In this posting, for example, Dr. Spudis provides some piquant remarks on the Planetary Society's space policy roadmap released last week: Another "Roadmap" - The Once and Future Moon - Nov.18.08
===
Dr. Spudis has been reporting from India on the Chandrayaan-1 mission. He has been working for several years on the Mini-SAR experiment that is included among the spacecraft's instruments.

To mark India's big step towards the Moon and deep space, the Moon Society has released a special issue of the Moon Miners' Manifesto dedicated to Indian progress in space exploration and development : Moon Society and Moon Miners' Manifesto introduce new publication for Readers in India - MMM-India Quarterly - The Moon Society Blog - Nov.18.08

Another Lunar Lander Challenge team expresses dismay at the possibility that the NG-LLC will not take place next October but instead whenever a given team is ready : A Little Update and Some Troubling News - Team Phoenicia - Nov.18.08.

I agree with them that if there is even one team besides Armadillo with a real chance at Level II by next October, they should be given that opportunity. On the other hand, if yet again no team shows up with a viable Level II vehicle, it will be a pointless waste of several months for Armadillo. Perhaps a compromise could be reached such as requiring that a team registered for Level II have a vehicle carrying out tethered hovers for 180 seconds by June or July. If none are doing so, Armadillo would then be allowed to do its flights ASAP after that date.

I assume there will eventually be a summit of X PRIZE and the teams to work out some sort of agreement on this. X PRIZE obviously cannot move the date earlier by fiat without accusations of favoritism.

Rob Coppinger gives some space policy suggestions :Hyperbola offers Obama its NASA recommendations - Hyperbola. Rand Simberg comments in turn: Advice From Across The Pond - Transterrestrial Musings
===
Rob also posts an item about delays in the schedule for the Ares I-X suborbital test flight : NASA's Ares I-X slips to July 2009 - Hyperbola.

NASA gives an update on Ares I-X hardware: NASA Receives First Stage Rocket Hardware for Ares I-X Test Flight - NASA - Nov.17.08.

I'll note that I've heard various engineers question the usefulness of the Ares I-X test since the vehicle differs significantly from the Ares I, especially with regards to the first stage. The Ares I has 5 SRB segments while the Ares I-X has only 4.

Duncan Law-Green notes two upcoming lectures of interest for NewSpace enthusiasts in England:
/--The New Space Age - Royal Aeronautical Society Lecture - David Ashford of Bristol Spaceplanes.
/-- Astrium Spaceplane, at the crossroads of aeronautics and space
===
A reader sends a pointer to this rather gossipy and petty Silicon Valley insider item about Elon Musk: Nerdfight: Why Elon Musk could be the next Steve Jobs - valleywag.com - Nov.17.08. I'll note that while a delay of the first Falcon 9/Dragon flight was negotiated, SpaceX has otherwise done quite well at meeting its COTS milestones.

The 62 Mile Club is looking for a "creative candidate for content generation" : Turn Your Love of "New Space" into Profits! - 62 Mile Club
===
Res Communis points to this announcement at AST/FAA :

Pre-Application Consultation Workshop
AST will conduct a workshop on the Pre-Application Consultation process for Commercial Launch Licensing and Permitting on February 4, 2009. The Workshop will be held at FAA Headquarters, 800 Independence Avenue SW, Washington, DC in the Bessie Coleman Conference Center from 1:00 pm - 4:00 pm...

===
Res Communis also notes that posting of two environmental impact documents concerning Spaceport America on the AST home page:
/-- Spaceport America Commercial Launch Site, Sierra County, New Mexico Final Environmental Impact Statement, Vol. I, Executive Summary and Chapters 1-11, November 2008 (PDF)
/-- Spaceport America Commercial Launch Site, Sierra County, New Mexico Final Environmental Impact Statement, Vol. II, Appendices, November 2008 (PDF)

The Kentucky Space blog points to a Cubesat mission funded by NSF: Small Satellite Takes on Large Thunderstorms: 'Firefly' CubeSat Mission to Study Lightning's Link to Terrestrial Gamma Ray Flashes - US National Science Foundation (NSF) - Nov.17.08. Nice to see NSF taking the initiative on these sort of innovative low cost projects that offer both substantive scientific value and excellent educational benefit for the students involved.

More about the NSF Cubesat program: CubeSat-based Science Missions for Space Weather and Atmospheric Research ( The next proposal deadline is February 10, 2009.)

TrueZer0 gives a brief review of some additional investigation into what went wrong during the flight of their vehicle at the NG-LLC.

They also discuss the proposed change of the LLC competition to a "first to demonstrate" format. For a small group with limited resources and part time workers, not having a clearly defined span of time of at least several months in which to build and test their vehicle puts them in a difficult situation. They point out also that for teams north of the Sun Belt, weather conditions will hamper or prevent testing until spring.

TrueZer0 and the other groups really need to know soon whether the format will be changed.

The latest issue of The Space Review includes an article from Jeff Foust on two recent reports that provide recommendations to the new administration on its course for space policy: New alternatives to the Vision. Taylor Dinerman suggests a way for the ISS collaboration to welcome India onto the orbital facility: India on the ISS: it starts with a rack. Nader Elhefnawy posts the second part of a survey of the Russian economy and its space program: A Russian resurgence? Jeff Foust reviews the new book Space Enterprise: Living and Working Offworld in the 21st Century by Philip Robert Harris.
===
The schedule for The Space Show this week begins today with a special program with David Livingston explaining what is involved in seeing a Space Shuttle launch. On Tuesday, Ross Tierney will talk about the Direct 2.0 launch architecture alternative to Ares/Orion. On Friday, space journalist Leonard David will discuss various space topics. On Sunday, space activist Greg Zsidisin returns to the show.

An announcement from the AIAA - Houston Section:

AIAA LUNCH-AND-LEARN, NOVEMBER 21: Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Houston Section will host a Lunch-and-Learn Seminar on Friday, November 21, 2008 at the Johnson Space Center (JSC) Gilruth Center Alamo Ballroom. Dennis A. Stone, Assistant Manager for Commercial Space Development in JSC's Commercial Crew & Cargo Program Office (C3PO), will be speaking on: funding development and demonstration of commercial transportation to orbit - NASA's preferred method of delivering cargo to ISS after Shuttle retirement. The presentation will be given from noon to 1pm. Appetizers will be served from 11:30-1:00 pm, compliments of AIAA. (Italian Antipasto, iced tea, & water) This event is open to aerospace professionals and students. Badges are not required. AIAA membership is not required. If you plan to attend, registration is recommended online at www.aiaa-houston.org. For additional information, please e-mail events at aiaa-houston.org or phone 281-244-3925.